>> UNCERTAINTY GROWS WITH INTEL'S NEW ALBANY PROJECT.

WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD. "

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

THE FUTURE OF THE INTEL PROJECT IN NEW ALBANY IS IN DOUBT.

HOW MUCH DOUBT, WE DON'T KNOW, BUT THE DOUBT GROWS.

THIS WEEK INTEL BASICALLY ADMITTED THE INTEL FACTORY STRATEGY WAS A MISTAKE.

AND CEO LIP-BU TAN SAID INTEL WOULD SLOW CONSTRUCTION OF THE NEW ALBANY PLANTS AND HALT PLANS TO BUILD FACTORIES IN EUROPE.

HE TOLD EMPLOYEES THERE ARE NO MORE BLANK CHECKS.

STATE AND LOCAL AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE WRITTEN LOTS OF CHECKS TO INTEL TO HELP WITH THE PROJECT.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PAID INTEL AT LEAST $1.

5 BILLION.

OHIO HAS SPENT $600 MILLION IN CONSTRUCTION GRANTS.

THE PLANT WAS SUPPOSED TO OPEN THIS YEAR, THEN INTEL DELAYED THE PROJECT TO 2030.

NOW THAT DATE LOOKS PREMATURE.

JO INGLES, LOTS OF SMILING FACES IN THAT GROUNDBREAKING CEREMONY.

MANY OF THEM NOT IN THEIR CURRENT JOBS, OR THEN JOBS, WHAT ARE STATE OFFICIALS SAYING NOW?

>> WELL, GOVERNOR DeWINE SAID, I THINK IT WAS ABOUT A MONTH AGO, HE SAID, YOU KNOW, INTEL, IF THEY DON'T --IF THE WORST WOULD HAPPEN AND THEY WOULDN'T GO IN THERE, THAT THE GROUND THERE IS PRIMED FOR ANOTHER COMPANY TO COME IN AND DO SOMETHING.

BUT HE THINKS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GO IN THERE.

HE THINKS IT'S A DELAY.

HE, YOU KNOW, HE'S KIND OF LIKE THE REST OF US, JUST KIND OF WAITING TO SEE IN SOME WAYS.

HE'S NOT --HE SAYS HE'S NOT SURE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY'RE DEALING WITH, ALL THE DIFFERENT RAMIFICATIONS OF THINGS.

BUT HE REALLY DOES BELIEVE THAT --THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THE STATE HAS PUT THAT MONEY OUT THERE TO MAKE THAT AREA READY FOR BUSINESS AND THAT EVENTUALLY IT WILL WORK OUT.

>> SO WAS IT --THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS FROM THE START, GENE.

>> YES.

>> BUT THEY'RE SAYING THEY'RE SLOWING CONSTRUCTION, ARE THEY TRYING TO LET US DOWN EASY?

BECAUSE YOU SLOW CONSTRUCTION, DOES THAT MEAN YOU STOP CONSTRUCTION?

>> LOOK, ON, WHAT FOR THE PAST X NUMBER OF YEARS ON YOUR SHOW, I'VE BEEN EXPRESSING MILD CONCERN AND TREPIDATION ABOUT THIS PROJECT BECAUSE CHIPS ARE BASICALLY A COMMODITY NOW.

FARMERS MANUFACTURE A COMMODITY.

I KNOW THAT IS NOT A HAPPY BUSINESS.

AND NOW YOU HAVE, AS EXPECTED, QUANTUM COMPUTERS ARE NOW COMING OUT.

THEY ARE QUADRILLION, BILLION TIMES FASTER, AND THEY USE THE ENERGY OF A LIGHT BULB TO WORK.

I MEAN, WE'RE NOT TALKING -- LIKE 95% LESS POWER SO.

THAT COULD BE ANOTHER GAME CHANGER.

BASICALLY QUANTUM COMPUTING COULD BE TO CHIP MANUFACTURER LIKE NITROGEN COMBINES AND HYBRID CORN WAS TO AGRICULTURE, CAUSING MASSIVE FURTHER CONSOLIDATION.

>> THIS IS HAPPENING VERY FAST, MUCH FASTER THAN IT HAPPENED IN AGRICULTURE.

>> BECAUSE EVERYTHING KEEPS ACCELERATING AND THIS IS WHY YOU'VE HEARD ME SAY FROM THE GET GO, THIS IS A COMMODITY THEY'RE MANUFACTURING.

I WISH THEM WELL, BUT I'M STILL CAUTIOUS.

>> I --IT'S A CAPACITY THING.

AND I WANT TO ADDRESS THAT HERE IN A SECOND, BUT JUST TODAY GOVERNOR DeWINE DID AFFIRM THAT HE HAD TALKED TO THE CEO OF THE COMPANY AND THAT THEY WERE STILL COMMITTED TO THE PROJECT BUT THEY NEED TO FIND, MY WORDS, NOT HIS, NEEDED TO FIND THE RIGHT CYCLE TO COME BACK INTO IT.

AND LIKE GENE WAS SAYING, IT IS AN INTERNATIONAL COMMODITY.

AND LOOK AT EVERYTHING'S THAT'S HAPPENING INTERNATIONALLY.

NOT ONLY NATIONALLY, BECAUSE WE ALSO HAVE SLOWDOWNS IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL FUNDING AS WELL AS THE MYSTERY WITH THE TARIFFS AND INTERNATIONAL NEGOTIATIONS.

>> THE CEO, LIP-BU TAN, SAID IN HIS LETTER TO EMPLOYEES, THE COMPANY INVESTED TOO MUCH TOO SOON WITHOUT ADEQUATE DEMAND.

TALKING ABOUT THESE FACTORIES.

DID THE FEDERAL, STATE GOVERNMENTS INVEST TOO MUCH, TOO SOON IN THIS PROJECT?

I MEAN, THIS IS JUST --THIS IS A BIPARTISAN, BIDEN PRESIDENCY, THE CHIPS ACT, MIKE DeWINE, REPUBLICAN, THE STATE MONEY.

>> I'LL REPEAT MYSELF.

THEY MANUFACTURE A COMMODITY.

LONG-TERM PROFITS AND LONG-TERM LOSSES TEND TO AVERAGE OUT IN COMMODITY MANUFACTURING WORLD.

THIS IS A TOUGH BUSINESS THAT YOU HAVE TO PRODUCE MORE AT A LOWER COST THAN YOUR COMPETITORS.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE IN A DOOM CYCLE.

>> YEAH.

>> OKAY?

THAT'S THE BUSINESS THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SUBSIDIZE.

INSTEAD, THE STATE NEEDS --I THINK, NEEDS TO BE GOING FOR NEW, NICHE INDUSTRIES THAT ARE --THEY'RE THE ONLY ONES DOING IT, IT'S REVOLUTIONARY.

THAT'S WHAT WE USED TO BE INVESTING IN.

WE USED TO BE SMOKESTACK CHASING.

NOW WE'RE LEGITIMATELY BEING CALLED CHIP CHASING.

>> IS THE DREAM OF THE SILICON HEART LAND DEAD, JO?

>> THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

WE DO KNOW CHIPS ARE BEING MANUFACTURED IN OTHER COUNTRIES, AND THEY'RE BEING MANUFACTURED IN GREATER QUANTITY, AND CHEAPER.

>> THAT'S WHAT STARTED THIS.

ONE OF THE IMPETUSES FOR THE CHIPS ACT WAS COVID AND THE SHUTDOWN.

WE COULDN'T GET CHIPS TO MAKE REFRIGERATORS, TO MAKE CARS.

THIS IS WHAT WE DECIDED TO DO, AND NOW WE'RE NOT SURE IT'S THE RIGHT WAY TO GO.

>> AND THERE WERE SECURITY CONCERNS, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT TO GET ALL OF OUR CHIPS FROM CHINA.

AND AT THE TIME, I REMEMBER IT WELL, THERE WERE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT THE AVAILABILITY OF CHIPS FROM TAIWAN IN THE EVENT THAT CHINA WERE TO DECIDE TO REENERGIZE THEIR PROJECT FOR TAKING OVER TAIWAN.

>> LOT OF COLLEGES HAVE RAMPED UP EDUCATION PROGRAMS TO HELP THIS PLANT FIND WORKERS.

I'VE ALREADY HEARD THAT WHEN THEY DECIDED TO MAKE A LESSER COMPLICATED CHIP THAT SOME OF THESE PROGRAMS, THEY DIDN'T NEED THE WORKERS.

>> RIGHT.

AND SO ONCE AGAIN, LOOK, TRYING TO PICK WINNERS AND LOSERS IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS A TRICKY TRADE.

I'LL GO BACK TO MY STATEMENT AGAIN, WHAT WE NEED TO BE CONCENTRATING ON IS RATHER THAN ATTRACTING MATURE BUSINESSES, WE NEED TO ATTRACT IMMATURE INNOVATORS.

IN OTHER WORDS, THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS, THE CREATIVE CLASS, TO USE A PHRASE OUT OF RICHARD'S BOOK, AND ENTICE THEM.

WHAT DO THEY TEND TO COME TO?

THEY TEND TO LIKE WALKABLE COMMUNITIES, BRICK STREETS, BRICK HOUSES.

I'M TALKING GERMAN VILLAGE.

>> THERE'S A LOT OF BRICK HOUSES IN NEW ALBANY, GENE.

>> THERE'S A LOT OF BRICK HOUSES IN NEW ALBANY, NOT TOO MANY BRICK STREETS.

>> I'LL TELL YOU WHO HAS A PROBLEM THE OTHER DIRECTION, I'LL BE HONEST.

WE HAVE A BRAIN DRAIN.

WE HAVE A LOT OF OUR YOUNG PEOPLE, THEY GRADUATE HERE, THEY LEAVE, THEY GO TO OTHER PLACES.

I CAN TELL YOU, MY SON LIVES IN COLORADO.

AND ANY TIME I TAKE A PLANE OUT TO COLORADO, IT IS FULL OF OHIO PARENTS WHO ARE GOING TO COLORADO TO VISIT THEIR KIDS.

AND THAT'S JUST ONE PLACE.

>> AND THAT WAS THE HOPE THAT THIS INTEL FACTORY, IF THEY BUILT EIGHT OF THEM, IT WAS GOING TO START THE SILICON HEARTLAND AND BRING PEOPLE INTO OHIO.

AND IT'S STILL NOT OVER YET.

>> BUT IT'S A 40-YEAR-OLD INDUSTRY NOW.

THEY NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT HOW DO WE ATTRACT --LOOK, I GO BACK TO THIRD FRONTIER, WHICH I ACCIDENTALLY HELPED START, WHICH IS AN INTERESTING STORY.

BUT YOU NEED TO ENCOURAGE INNOVATION HERE.

AND YOU NEED TO BRING THOSE INNOVATORS, ALLOW THEM TO STAY HERE AND FIND OUT --AND ASK THEM WHAT THEY WANT AND THEN GIVE IT TO THEM.

>> LET'S GET TO OUR NEXT TOPIC, THE FIGHT OVER PROPERTY TAXES CONTINUES THIS WEEK, THOSE TRYING TO SLOW INCREASES WON A SMALL VICTORY.

REPUBLICAN IN THE OHIO HOUSE VOTED TO OVERRIDE ONE OF GOVERNOR DeWINE'S PROPERTY TAX-RELATED LINE ITEM VETOES.

THE HOUSE OVERRODE THE VETO OF A BAN ON REPLACEMENT AND EMERGENCY LEVIES, WHICH MEANS IF THE SENATE AGREES, THOSE BANS ON THOSE LEVIES WOULD TAKE EFFECT.

HOUSE LEADERS HAD HOPED TO OVERRIDE TWO OTHER PROPERTY TAX RELATED VETOES BUT OPTED TO DELAY THOSE VOTES.

MEANWHILE, GOVERNOR DeWINE'S PROPERTY TAX WORKING GROUP MET FOR THE FIRST TIME THIS WEEK.

AND THE GROUP HAS ALREADY SPARKED CONTROVERSY EVERYONE BEFORE IT BEGINS ITS WORK.

33% ISN'T GREAT.

>> WELL, AND THEY CALLED THE LAWMAKERS BACK ON SUMMER BREAK.

SOME OF THEM WERE COMING IN, ONE OF THEM DELAYED A TRIP TO EUROPE.

SOME WERE COMING IN OFF VACATION WITH THEIR FAMILY.

ONE CAME IN AND HAD JUST GOTTEN OUT OF THE HOSPITAL DAYS BEFORE AND WAS MEDICALLY FRAGILE.

THERE WERE ALL KINDS OF SITUATIONS.

THE --THEY HELD THE MEETING ACTUALLY IN THE SENATE CHAMBERS BECAUSE HOUSE CHAMBERS HAD AN AIR CONDITIONING ISSUE.

SO I MEAN, THERE WAS A WHOLE LOT GOING ON, AND TO COME BACK AND THEN THE ONE THING THAT THEY PASSED, THE SPONSOR OF IT ADMITTED IT WON'T AFFECT TAXES IN JANUARY.

SO YOU KNOW, IT WAS ONE OF THESE THINGS WERE EVERYONE GOT, YOU KNOW, ALL WORKED UP, CAME BACK TO COLUMBUS, AND THEN --YEAH.

>> GENE, I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO DEEP, BUT REPLACEMENT LEVIES, SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO REPLACE THE LEVY THAT'S ALREADY ON THE BALLOT.

BUT YOUR TAXES ARE GOING TO GO UP, BECAUSE YOUR PROPERTY VALUE HAS GONE UP.

>> RIGHT.

>> SO GROUPS LIKE -- VOTERS WOULD SAY, OKAY, JUST REPLACE IT, I'VE ALREADY PAID IT.

>> THEY DID NOT MAKE ANY ADVANCES, THOUGH, ON ANYTHING THEY DID WITH THE CORE ISSUE.

>> LEVY INCREASE IS A LEVY INCREASE.

>> RIGHT.

THEY DID HELP WITH THE SEMANTICS OF IT.

BUT THEY DID NOT HELP WITH WHAT IS THE TWO CORE THINGS DRIVING PROPERTY TAXES UP.

ONE OF THEM IS OUR ZONING LAWS, WHICH WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO, YOU KNOW, BUILD DENSE HOUSING, SMALLER HOUSES.

YOU HAVE TO BUILD McMANSIONS IS THE ONLY THING YOU CAN GET APPROVED.

AND THE OTHER THING IT SHOWS IS THAT, WELL, LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE NOT COLLABORATING, CONSOLIDATING, OR SHARING SERVICES ENOUGH.

AND THEY CAN EITHER --I MEAN, YEARS AGO I PUT --I PUT UP A PROGRAM TO DO THIS, COST $45 MILLION A YEAR, THEY NEED TO GO BACK TO THAT TYPE OF A PROGRAM TO ENCOURAGE --BECAUSE WHEN THE --IF THE PROPERTY TAX GOES ON THE BALLOT, PROPERTY TAX ELIMINATION GOES ON THE BALLOT, I EXPECT IT TO PASS.

AND WHEN IT DOES, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE EIGHT COUNTIES, NO TOWNSHIPS --EVERYWHERE, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD THEIR CURRENT SYSTEM.

AND IF THEY --IF THE MEMBERS OF THE STATUS QUO LIKE WHAT THEY HAVE NOW, THEY BETTER BE COMING UP WITH REFORMS, AND THEY'RE NOT.

>> THAT'S WHERE THIS WORKING GROUP IS GOING TO COME IN, JOE.

BUT THERE'S SOME CRITICISM THERE'S A LOT OF COUNTY AUDITORS ON THIS GROUP, IT'S GEOGRAPHICALLY DIVERSE, COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, COUNTY AUDITORS, A SUPERINTENDENT.

THERE'S NO REAL TAXPAYERS ON THIS GROUP.

NO TAXPAYER GROUP, NOT EVEN LIKE THE AARP, WHO REPRESENT RETIREES WHO HAVE BEEN STUNG BY THESE PROPERTY TAX INCREASES.

>> YEAH.

AND TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, FOR WHATEVER REASON, THAT --MAYBE BECAUSE I'M A PRO-TAX DEMOCRAT, BUT I'M WORRIED LESS ABOUT THE MAKEUP OF THAT.

I'M WORRIED MORE ABOUT THE LACK OF CREATIVITY AND COMING UP WITH SOLUTIONS AS TO HOW TO DO THAT.

AND BY THE WAY, THE PROVISION THAT WAS VETOED THAT NOW THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT OVERRIDING ACTUALLY DID NOT NOTHING OR WOULD DO NOTHING TO DECREASE TAXES.

ALL THAT IT DOES IS THAT IT PROVIDES A BLOCK, PSYCHOLOGICAL BLOCK IN ONE OR TWO CASES -- MAKE IT HARDER TO DO THAT.

THERE'S ENOUGH HIJINKS GOING ON, I THINK WE NEED SOME CREATIVITY.

PROPOSITION 13 IN CALIFORNIA, THAT FROZE REASSESSMENTS UNTIL THE HOUSE IS SOLD TO A NEW BUYER, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, PERHAPS.

AND OF COURSE, ALSO, THE EXEMPTION FOR FOLKS MAYBE OVER 55 OR 65.

>> BUT LAWMAKERS, JOE, ARE HEARING FROM SCHOOL DISTRICTS, LOCAL OFFICIALS, SAYING DON'T MESS WITH IT.

>> RIGHT.

>> DON'T CUT OFF OUR SOURCE OF FUNDING.

>> RIGHT.

SCHOOL DISTRICTS WERE DOWN THERE SAYING IT'S GOING TO CAUSE A FISCAL SITUATION FOR THEM WHERE THEY CAN'T GET OUT OF IT.

AND SO THEY WERE HEARING THAT THAT'S DEFINITELY A PROBLEM.

AND A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE START LOOKING AROUND SAYING, HEY, DO WE WANT TO REALLY BE RESPONSIBLE.

IF THAT'S THE CASE, DO WE REALLY WANT TO HAVE OUR HANDS IN THAT.

AND I THINK THAT REALLY PUTS A PAUSE SON ONLY LAWMAKERS.

>> THE FIGHT OVER OHIO'S PRIVATE SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAM IS STARTING TO MOVE THROUGH THE COURTS.

THE PROGRAM ALLOWS EVERY OHIO FAMILY TO GET STATE MONEY TO ATTEND A PRIVATE SCHOOL REGARDLESS OF INCOME, REGARDLESS OF THE QUALITY OF THE STUDENT'S HOME SCHOOL.

IT HAS BECOME VERY POPULAR.

NEARLY 90,000 STUDENTS HAVE VOUCHERS.

IT COSTS THE STATE NEARLY A HALF BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

LAST MONTH A FRANKLIN COUNTY JUDGE RULED THE PROGRAM UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

DEMOCRAT JAIZA PAGE RULED THE PROGRAM VIOLATED THE CONSTITUTION THAT REQUIRES A THOROUGH AND EFFICIENT SYSTEM OF COMMON SCHOOLS.

THIS WEEK REPUBLICAN LEADERS APPEALED THE RULING, SAYING OHIO'S CONSTITUTION REQUIRES THE STATE TO PAY FOR RELIGIOUS EDUCATION.

JOE MAS, THAT'S A UNIQUE INTERPRETATION.

>> IT IS A UNIQUE INTERPRETATION.

AND BY THE WAY, I DO SUSPECT THAT AS THIS IS APPEALED THAT THE TENTH DISTRICT WILL UPHOLD THE DECISION.

BUT THEN, OF COURSE, LIKE EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS NOWADAYS, IT'S GOING TO REACH THE OHIO SUPREME COURT AND/OR THE U. S. SUPREME COURT, NOT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.

AND IN THE WORDS OF OUR COLLEAGUE, MIKE MILLER, CAME TO MIND THAT WHAT'S CONSTITUTIONAL IS WHATEVER THE HECK THIS SUPREME COURT SAYS IS CONSTITUTIONAL.

>> GENE, I HAVEN'T HEARD EFFICIENT SCHOOL SYSTEM SINCE THE DEROTH CASE, CLOSE TO 30 YEARS OLD.

THAT WAS NEVER --THAT WAS -- THEY JUST IGNORED IT.

>> RIGHT.

>> IS THERE ANY WAY THIS GETS RULED UNCONSTITUTIONAL, THIS SYSTEM, DO YOU THINK?

>> PROBABLY NOT.

BUT THIS KIND OF GOES BACK TO OUR EARLIER DISCUSSION ABOUT PROPERTY TAXES TOO.

IS THAT AS OLIVER SAID, TAXES THE PRICE COULD PAY FOR CIVILIZATION AND HOW MUCH CIVILIZATION CAN YOU AFFORD AND WHERE ARE YOU IN YOUR EFFORT AND CAPACITY FOR IT.

THIS IS WHY WE'RE TAKING GOOD MONEY FROM THE CITIZENS OF DUBLIN, WHERE YOU LIVE, AND WE'RE SENDING IT TO WHERE THEY HAVE NO TAX CAPACITY.

THEY HAVE NOTHING THEY CAN TAX.

>> THEY ALSO DON'T HAVE PRIVATE SCHOOLS TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO GET THESE VOUCHERS EITHER.

>> YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT.

AND I COME FROM A COUNTY OF 40,000 PEOPLE, 50,000 HOGS, AND ZERO PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

>> THIS VOUCHER PROGRAM IS VERY POPULAR, WHICH WE PREDICTED.

WHAT'S BEING DONE TO MAKE SURE THESE KIDS ARE GOING TO THESE PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND THAT THEY'RE NOT HURTING TRADITIONAL?

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE COMPLAINTS.

THE SAME RULES DON'T APPLY TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT APPLY TO THESE SCHOOLS.

BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IT BEING POPULAR, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE VOUCHERS, MOST OF THE PEOPLE GETTING THE VOUCHERS, THEY WERE ALREADY IN THOSE PRIVATE SCHOOLS TO BEGIN WITH, AND ABOUT 90% OF OHIO'S SCHOOL KIDS GO TO PUBLIC SCHOOL STILL.

SO YOU KNOW, IT HAS INCREASED IN POPULARITY BUT IF YOU LOOK WHO'S GETTING THE MONEY, A LOT OF THESE PRIVATE SCHOOLS, THEY'VE ENCOURAGED THEIR PEOPLE TO GO GET THAT MONEY, AND THEN THEY'VE RAISED THE TUITION.

>> WHAT THIS IS ALSO REALLY, WHAT DOESN'T GET ENOUGH PROMOTING, IS THIS IS A WAR BETWEEN THE TEACHERS UNIONS AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THE RECENT HEAD OF THE TEACHERS UNION, I DIDN'T KNOW THIS, BUT SHE WAS ON THE NATIONAL DEMOCRAT NATIONAL COMMITTEE BOARD.

OKAY?

DOES THAT TELL YOU --AND SO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE IS A PROXY WAR.

WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE FAILING TO DO, THOUGH, THEY'RE USING VOUCHERS AS A BACKDOOR WAY TO REFORM THE SCHOOLS.

THEY NEED TO CONFRONT THE PROBLEM IN PUBLIC EDUCATION HEAD-ON AND DEAL WITH THINGS LIKE CHEMISTRY TEACHERS BEING PAID THE SAME AS KINDERGARTEN TEACHERS, MATH TEACHERS BEING THE SAME.

THEY NEED DIFFERENTIAL PAY AND THEY NEED TO FIGURE OUT SOMETHING ABOUT TENURE, OKAY?

>> ALL RIGHT, WE'LL GET TO THAT NEXT WEEK.

>> OKAY.

WHEN I'M NOT ON.

>> ANYWAY, AS LAWMAKERS DEAL WITH PROPERTY TAXES AND IMPROVING SCHOOLS, THEY ALSO WANT TO KEEP TAXPAYERS FROM PAYING FOR MOUNTAIN DUE.

ITS COMPLICATED, BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WANTS TO BAN THE USE OF FOOD STAMPS TO BUY SUGARY DRINKS.

THE STATE BUDGET HAD A PROVISION THAT WOULD HAVE BASICALLY SIGNED OHIO UP FOR THAT FEDERAL PLAN.

GOVERNOR DeWINE SAYS HE SUPPORTS THE CONCEPT BUT VETOED THE PROVISION BECAUSE HE SAID IT WAS TOO COMPLEX.

TO TRY TO FIND A SIMPLE SOLUTION, THE GOVERNOR HAS FORMED, WAIT FOR IT, A WORKING GROUP TO COME UP WITH A RECOMMENDATION.

IT ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD GROUP WITH DOCTORS, SOCIAL WORKERS, AND PEOPLE IN THE BEVERAGE AND GROCERY INDUSTRIES.

GENE KREBS, SHOULD WE PROHIBIT FOLKS FROM USING S. N. A. P. BENEFITS TO BUY UNHEALTHY FOODS?

>> PROBABLY YES.

AND THAT'S --AND THE SIMPLE FACT IS THAT THERE'S TWO REASONS FOR THAT.

ONE, WHEN A MEMBER OF THE MIDDLE CLASS GOES THROUGH THE GROCERY LINE AND SEES THE PERSON IN FRONT OF THEM BUYING SOFT DRINKS, JUNK FOOD, TSAI ING-WENI --AND THEY SEE THE AWFUL DIET, IF THEY DO THIS, WHAT YOU SEE IS A NEW PURITANS COMING FORTH IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

BUT IF WE DO THIS, WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY GOING THROUGH THE WELFARE SYSTEM ALSO HAS TRAINING AND CLASSES ON NUTRITION AND HOW TO COOK.

ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS WHEN YOU DEAL WITH PEOPLE COMING UP THROUGH WELFARE, THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW TO COOK.

AND SO WE NEED TO HAVE COOKING CLASSES.

>> IT SEEMS LIKE A PUNISHMENT, IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO BUY MOUNTAIN DUE AND THEY CAN'T.

>> I'M WITH THE GOVERNOR, I THINK THAT WE DO NEED TO FIND A WAY TO REDIRECT THE PEOPLE ON THE STAMP PROGRAM TO --FOR BETTER CHOICES.

IT'S ACTUALLY A WOKE IDEA, YOU KNOW, TO TRY TO SOCIALLY ENGINEER THE DIET FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE.

>> SO BUT QUESTION FOR THE WORKING GROUP AND FOR YOU, JOE, IS WHAT IS A SUGARY DRINK?

IS IT MOUNTAIN DEW OR IS IT RED BULL?

GATORADE?

IS IT A DUNKIN' COLD BREW?

WHAT IF YOU'RE A LANDSCAPER WHO'S MAKING VERY LOW WAGES, NEEDS FOOD STAMPS, BUT NEEDS GATORADE TO STAY HYDRATED DURING THE DAY, WHERE'S THE LINE?

>> THAT IS THE PROBLEM RIGHT THERE.

AND AS SOMEONE WHO WORKED IN A GROCERY STORE WHEN I WAS YOUNG, I CAN TELL YOU THAT WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE COMING THROUGH THE LINE AND YOU HAVE ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT PRODUCTS, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE PUTTING A LOT ON A CASHIER.

YOU'RE PUTTING A LOT ON A GROCERY STORE TO FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE CAN GO, WHICH ONE CAN CAN'T GO, AND YOU KNOW, THAT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME TO WORK OUT.

AND BUSINESSES NEED TO BE AT THAT TABLE BUT SO DO PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERTS, AND I'M WITH YOU ON THE COOKING CLASSES.

I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA FOR EVERYONE.

>> NOW, THAT'S ASSUMING THERE'S A HUMAN BEING AT THE CASH REGISTER AT THE GROCERY STORE.

AND MOST STORES DO NOT HAVE HUMAN BEINGS.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

>> SO BUT, YES, BUT HERE'S PART OF THE OTHER PROBLEM TOO.

FOR THOSE WHO ARE LOW RESOURCE, AKA IN POVERTY, THE DIET HAS A DIRECT IMPACT ON THEIR MENTAL APPROACH, THEIR MENTAL HEALTH, THEIR ABILITY TO COPE WITH LIFE'S --WHATEVER LIFE'S THROWING AT THEM.

HIGH SUGARY, HIGH FAT DIET TENDS TO REDUCE YOUR ABILITY TO HANDLE THIS STUFF.

>> REMEMBER WHEN JD VANCE GOT PICKED ON FOR DRINKING DIET MOUNTAIN DEW?

>> YEAH, AND HE SHOULD HAVE.

>> THAT'S NOT REALLY SUGARY, BECAUSE IT'S DIET.

>> THE ARTIFICIAL DIET MATERIALS ARE WORSE THAN SUGAR.

>> BUT THAT WOULD BE BANNED.

>> IT'S BATTERY ACID, LET'S FACE IT.

>> THIS IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING TO WATCH.

ANYWAY, FIVE YEARS AGO THIS WEEK WE WERE REACTING TO THE EXTRAORDINARY NEWS THAT THEN HOUSE SPEAKER LARRY HOUSEHOLDER AND FOUR OTHERS WERE ARRESTED AND CHARGED WITH ORCHESTRATING THE LARGEST BRIBERY SCAM IN OHIO HISTORY.

IN THE YEARS SINCE THE NUCLEAR BAILOUT SCANDAL SURFACED, TWO OF THE PARTICIPANTS DIED BY SUICIDE, TWO ADMITTED WRONG DOING, AND TWO WENT TO FEDERAL PRISON.

HOUSEHOLDER IS DOING 20 YEARS.

BUT LITTLE HAS CHANGED TO THE SYSTEM THAT ALLOWED THE BRIBERY TO HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

AND THE POLITICS AROUND IT.

GENE KREBS, YOU'RE A FORMER LAWMAKER.

YOU WORKED CLOSELY WITH THE REGULATORY UTILITY INDUSTRY.

>> MM-HMM.

>> WHAT HAVE LAWMAKERS, UTILITIES, AND THEIR REGULATORS LEARNED FROM THIS SCANDAL?

>> DON'T GET CAUGHT.

BUT BASICALLY, THERE'S NO FEAR.

IF THE STATE HEALTH IS AN ECOLOGICAL STRUCTURE, WITHOUT PREDATION, THE ANIMALS START TO RUN AMUCK.

AND WHAT YOU HAVE THERE IS THIS NO FEAR PREDATION GOING ON.

THEY'RE NOT FEARFUL OF THE DEMOCRATS.

DEMOCRATS ARE WORTHLESS.

THEY CAN'T GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER AND USE IT AGAINST THEM.

THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING MORE.

I'M WAITING FOR DAVE YOST, AND I REALLY THINK THAT DAVE YOST TRYING THOSE TWO FIRST ENERGY HEADS UP IN AKRON MAY LEAD TO REVELATIONS FROM THE BENCH.

>> JOE?

>> DEMOCRATS, HAVE THEY NOT TAKEN --MY THEORY ON UP THIS IS THIS SCANDAL WAS VERY COMPLICATED.

JEFFREY EPSTEIN, VERY SIMPLE.

PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THAT.

THIS HAS SO MANY LAYERS AND UTILITIES AND ENERGY REGULATION.

>> INCLUDING THE INVOLVEMENT BY THE GOVERNOR, WHO REALLY HAS BEEN RELATIVELY UNAFFECTED BY THIS WHOLE THING.

SO YOU'RE CORRECT.

AND BY THE WAY, HOUSEHOLDER DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF CARDS LEFT TO PLAY ON HERE.

>> HE JUST LOST HIS APPEAL.

>> HE LOST THE APPEAL.

ABOUT THE ONLY THING LEFT FOR HIM IS A HABEAS CORPUS IN THE EVENT NEW INFORMATION COMES UP.

IT'S BAD NEWS.

>> OR A PRESIDENTIAL PARDON.

>> OR A PRESIDENTIAL PARDON, YEAH.

>> JOE, ANTI-CORRUPTION LAWS, WHERE DO THOSE STAND RIGHT NOW?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I DON'T THINK THEY EVER REALLY MATERIALIZED.

THERE'S BEEN LITTLE THINGS AROUND THE EDGES, BUT YOU KNOW, FOR THE BASIC PART OF IT, THE STRUCTURE THAT ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN, THE OVERSIGHT, THE WATCHDOGS, ALL THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WE STILL DON'T HAVE IT.

IT'S STILL THE SAME THING THAT WE HAD BACK THEN.

SO THIS COULD EASILY, YOU KNOW, HAPPEN AGAIN UNDER WHAT WE HAVE NOW.

>> AND THE DARK MONEY CAMPAIGN THAT'S ONLY GOTTEN, I DON'T WANT TO SAY WORSE, BUT THERE'S MORE MONEY OUT THERE.

>> FROM RECENT RULINGS, THEY CAN COORDINATE CLOSE WE ARE THE ORIGINAL CAMPAIGNS, THE HUMAN CAMPAIGNS.

SO YEAH, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY UNTIL THE CITIZENRY SAYS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS, BUT YET WHEN I TALK TO MY NEIGHBORS AND RELATIVES, WHICH IS THE SAME THING OUT WHERE I LIVE, AND I TALK TO THEM ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOUSE BILL SIX, THEY GO, WHAT'S THAT AGAIN?

SO FOR THOSE OF US WHO POPULATE THAT NINE-BLOCK AREA AROUND THE STATE HOUSE, IT'S TOP OF OUR BRAIN.

>> YEAH.

>> BUT FOR BOB AND BETTY BUCKEYE.

>> YEAH, IT'S A COMPLICATED INSIDE CAPITAL SQUARE SCANDAL.

TIME NOW FOR OUR OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

JOE MAS, YOU'RE UP FIRST.

>> MIKE, LIKE I USUALLY DO, I HAVE MY THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS WITH WOSU AND FELLOW STATIONS.

A WEEK AGO THE FUNDING THROUGH THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING WAS TERMINATED BY CONGRESS, SIGNED BY THE PRESIDENT.

I WANT TO REMIND OUR VIEWERS AND LISTENERS TO SUPPORT, PLEASE, WOSU, AND YOUR LOCAL PBS AND NPR STATIONS DIRECTLY.

AND WE'LL SEE HOW IT ALL DEVELOPS.

>> THANK YOU, GENE?

>> WHEN I TALK TO LOBBYISTS ABOUT MUSK TRYING TO ORGANIZE A NEW THIRD PARTY, THEY EITHER STICK THEIR HEADS IN THE SAND OR START SCREAMING IN FEAR.

BUT MUSK HATES RAMASWAMY.

AND I EXPECT MUSK TO MOUNT, IF RAMASWAMY IS OUR CANDIDATE, I EXPECT HIM TO PUT UP A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE HERE, WHICH MEANS THAT THE DEMOCRAT, WHOEVER HE OR SHE MAY BE, WOULD WIN, I AND I'M CALLING ON MY PARTY TO START GETTING SMARTER ABOUT WHO THEY NOMINATE.

>> JO?

>> THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS ANNOUNCED THEY'RE GOING AFTER A BOND ISSUE THIS NOVEMBER.

ONE OF THE FASTEST GROWING SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN THE COUNTRY, AND THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT THE TAX STUDY GROUP THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THEY NEED TO LOOK AT.

BECAUSE FAST-GROWING SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN THE STATE OF OHIO, THEY NEED MORE OF AN APPARATUS FOR THEM TO GET INCOME, OTHERWISE THEY'RE GOING TO BE ON THE BALLOT CONTINUOUSLY, AS THEY ARE.

>> THIS WEEK, WE LOST OZZY OSBORNE.

HIS ONLY COLUMBUS CONNECTION IS HE CANCELED A CONCERT IN 1997.

HE WAS SICK.

AT THE LAST MINUTE HE CANCELED.

MANY OF THE 18,000 FANS RIOTED AT THE AMPHITHEATER.

THEY BROKE WINDOWS, SET FIRE.

OZZY LATER APOLOGIZED.

NOW I BET SOME OF THOSE OZZY FANS HIT GOLF BALLS AT THAT VERY SAME SITE WHICH IS NOW THE HOME OF TOP GOLF.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

CRAZY TRAIN.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

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WATCH US ANY TIME AT OUR WEBSITE WOSU.

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FOR OUR CREW AND OUR PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON, HAVE A GOOD WEEK.