> >> TAXES, WHO SHOULD PAY AND HOW MUCH?

> >> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" .

I AM MIKE THOMPSON.

TAXES HAVE COME TO DOMINATE THE POLITICAL DEBATE IN WASHINGTON AND THEY MOVE AS A GROWING CONCERN AT THE STATEHOUSE.

THE U. S. HOUSE NARROWLY APPROVED EXTENDING THE TRUMP TAX CUTS PASSED A FEW YEARS AGO.

THE PACKAGE ALSO ELIMINATED TAXES ON TIPS AND OVERTIME.

THE BILL CUTS TAXES FOR FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN AND CUT INCOME TAXES FOR PEOPLE WHO PAY HIGH PROPERTY TAXES.

TO PAY FOR THESE TAX CUTS, OR PARTIALLY PAY FOR THE TAX CUTS, LAWMAKERS WILL REDUCE MEDICAID SPENDING BY REQUIRING RECIPIENTS TO WORK AND TIGHTENING ELIGIBILITY.

THEY WILL ALSO CUT FEDERAL FOOD ASSISTANCE FUNDING.

WHILE THERE IS NO BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL AT THE STATEHOUSE, LAWMAKERS HERE IN OHIO ARE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR WAYS TO HELP HOMEOWNERS DEAL WITH HIGH PROPERTY TAXES AND THERE IS A CONSTANT PUSH TO LOWER EVEN ELIMINATE THE STATE INCOME TAX.

BOB CLEGG ON THE HOUSE PLAN.

IT STILL HAS TO GET TO THE SENATE BUT IT KEEPS THE TAX CUTS AND CUTS MEDICAID AND ALSO INCREASES THE DEFICIT.

IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE ANYONE IS HAPPY.

IS THIS GOOD POLICY?

>> Reporter: THE PROBLEM WE HAVE WITH THE DEFICIT IS NO ONE NEITHER PARTY HAS THE WHEREWITHAL TO CUT SPENDING TO A DEGREE THAT WOULD AFFECT THE DEFICIT.

I MEAN, BASICALLY YOU WOULD HAVE TO CUT A BIG PORTION OF OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO REALLY START AFFECTING IT.

SO WHAT WE ARE DOING IS REPUBLICANS IS TRYING TO GROW IT SO THAT WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE DEFICIT TO THE GDP WE GOT TO GROW THAT GDP TO MAKE THAT DEFICIT PERCENTAGE GO DOWN.

THAT IS THE KEY TO KEEPING US ECONOMICALLY HEALTHY AS A COUNTRY.

>> AND THAT IS WHERE TAX CUTS COME IN.

>> THE PROBLEM WITH THE TAX CUTS IS IF WE HADN'T CONTINUED THEM, WE WOULD HAVE ENDED UP WITH THE LARGEST TAX INCREASE IN OUR NATIONS HISTORY.

SO WE HAD TO KEEP THEM.

IF YOU'RE MAKING OVER 50,000 A YEAR YOU ARE GOING TO GET A TAX CUT.

>> ALTHOUGH YOUR TAX CUTS REMAINS THE SAME.

>> YOUR TAXES WILL GO UP.

>> WE ARE IN A SITUATION NOW IN THE PREVIOUS FOUR YEARS WHERE PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD A TAX INCREASE OF ANY KIND.

AND YOU SAW THAT ON THE STATE LEVEL.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE INCREASING TAXES.

>> SO WHERE IS THE BALANCE?

>> IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE I THINK THAT BOB AND I AGREE 100%, EXCEPT SORT OF IN MIRROR IMAGE BECAUSE MY VIEW ON IT IS NEITHER PARTY HAS HAD THE WHEREWITHAL TO INCREASE TAXES AND TO ALLOCATE THEM TO THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD TO PAY THEM.

IN REALITY, ABOUT 70% OF TAXES ARE PAID BY THE TOP PERCENT AS IT IS TODAY.

60%, ACCORDING TO THE WHARTON SCHOOL, 60% OF THE VALUE OF THE BILL AS PASSED BY THE HOUSE WILL GO TO THE 10% OF THE PEOPLE.

BOB IS CORRECT THAT MIDDLE- CLASS DID RECEIVE A MODEST REDUCTION DURING THE LAST GO AROUND TRUMP ONE THAT WILL NOW BECOME PERMANENT.

WHAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IS IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY THAT, AND WHAT I FIND FRUSTRATING IS THAT THE WHOLE TOPIC OF RAISING TAXES, AND YES, I HAVE SAID IT.

I'M A DEMOCRAT.

BACK THAT EVEN BROUGHT UP.

INSTEAD WHAT YOU DO IS YOU CUT THE PEOPLE THAT CAN AFFORD IT THE LEAST, THE FOLKS ON MEDICAID.

WHICH BY THE WAY, LOTS AND LOTS OF SENIORS ARE ON MEDICAID AS WELL AS MEDICARE.

>> JOE, YOU NEED TO TALK TO CHUCK SCHUMER.

CHUCK SCHUMER IS UPSET BECAUSE THE CEILING IS 500,000.

THAT MEANS PEOPLE OVER THAT MIGHT BE GETTING IT.

IF YOU THINK THAT'S UNFAIR.

>> STATE AND LOCAL TAXES IS WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

HOW PEOPLE PAY HIGH PROPERTY TAXES PAY LOWER INCOME TAXES.

JO INGLES , STATEHOUSE.

THEY ARE LOOKING AT ELIMINATING THE TAX ON OVERTIME AND TIPS.

SHOULDN'T THAT BE TAXED LIKE ANY OTHER EARNINGS?

>> THE SPONSOR OF IT SAYS THAT HE REMEMBERS WHEN HE WAS A SERVER AND HOW HARD IT WAS TO GET THOSE TIPS AND HE WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR TIPS ACTUALLY GET TO KEEP THAT MONEY.

BUT YOU'RE RIGHT IN THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T GET TIPS AND WHO HAPPENED TO JUST DRAW A REGULAR PAYCHECK TO SAY WAIT A MINUTE, I WORK HARD FOR MY MONEY TOO, WHY AM I NOT GETTING A BREAK?

THEY ARE CONSIDERING A DIFFERENT TAX PROPOSAL BUT THE STATEHOUSE MANY OF THOSE ARE FOR PROPERTY TAX.

BECAUSE THAT SEEMS TO BE THING THAT LAWMAKERS SAY THEIR CONSTITUENTS COMPLAIN ABOUT THE MOST.

>> BUT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR STUFF FOR BOB.

YOU PAY FOR ROADS, YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR SCHOOLS, THAT $2 BILLION TAX INCENTIVE PACKAGE.

HOW DO YOU SOLVE THAT PROBLEM?

>> IT'S A BIG PROBLEM.

AS WELL IF WE TALK ABOUT THESE PROBLEMS, THEY NEVER GET SOLVED.

THEY ARE BIG PROBLEMS.

>> THERE'S A LOT OF SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, MIKE, THINK ABOUT HOW BAD THIS WOULD BE IF THAT GROUP THAT IS PASSING AROUND PETITIONS TO DO AWAY WITH PROPERTY TAXES ALTOGETHER, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO OUR FUNDING SYSTEM IF THAT PASSES?

I AM AWARE ENOUGH THAT I KNOW IF YOU TAKE AWAY THOSE PROPERTY TAX DOLLARS YOU HAVE TO MAKE UP A LOT OF THEM.

WHETHER THROUGH SALES TAX OR WHATEVER.

FEES, INCREASED FEES, IT'S GOT TO BE MADE UP.

>> THE FEDERAL INCOME TAX BREAK FOR FOLKS WHO PAY HIGH PROPERTY TAXES, BASICALLY THE PERCENTAGE OF FOLKS WHO PAY HIGH PROPERTY TAXES YOU DON'T HAVE TO PRESS YOUR LOCAL OFFICIALS OR STATE OFFICIALS ON WHY THEY ARE CHARGING YOU SO MUCH IN TAXES.

IT'S ON THE FEDERAL SIDE.

THAT DOESN'T SEEM FAIR , NOT THAT OUR PROPERTY TAXES ARE DIRT CHEAP BUT THEY ARE LOWER IN OHIO THAN IN NEW YORK OR CALIFORNIA.

>> BUT BARELY.

OHIO HAPPENS TO BE ONE OF THE STATES THAT HAS THE HIGHEST, FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT OUR TAX STRUCTURE IS HEAVY TOWARDS THE PROPERTY TAXES AND THAT ALLOWS THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO THEN CONTINUE TO REDUCE THE BUSINESS AND PERSONAL INCOME TAX BELIEVING THAT IS THE WAY THEY ARE GOING TO RETAIN POPULATION.

AS POPULATION OTHERWISE WOULD CONTINUE TO LEAK AWAY.

>> THE WAY TO SOLVE PROBLEMS IN THE FALL OF SOCIAL SECURITY, HOW TO FIX IT IS THE BASE CLOSURE COMMISSION.

A COMMISSION THAT LOOKED AT ALL THE MILITARY BASES AFTER THE COLD WAR ENDED AND SAYS THIS ONE CLOSES, THIS ONE STAYS OPEN.

AND CONGRESS HAD TO PASS IT, YES OR NO.

IT TOOK THE POLITICS OUT.

THEY HAVE A COMMISSION THAT SAYS THIS SHOULD BE THE TAX BREAK AND THIS IS HOW WE SHOULD DIVVY IT UP.

>> I COULD JUST IMAGINE WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO COVER WHO GETS ON THAT COMMISSION AND HOW.

BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A BIG DEAL.

BUT THAT WOULD WORK IN ONE WAY.

IN THEORY IT WOULD WORK.

BUT I THINK WE ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO SOMETHING OF THAT CONSIDERATION AND I DO THINK THE LAWMAKERS WHEN YOU TALK TO THEM, THEY ARE TRYING TO TINKER WITH WHO GETS A TAX REBATE AND HOW THEY GET THE MONEY.

BUT LIKE BOB SAYS, IT'S COMPLICATED PROBLEMS.

>> VERY.

AND WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, MIKE, THAT ONLY OCCURS IN GOVERNMENT WHEN WE HAVE A CRISIS.

AND I MEAN, IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL YOU'RE LOOKING AT 2035 WHEN SOCIAL SECURITY GOES BANKRUPT OR 2034 WHEN MEDICARE GOES BANKRUPT.

IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE THAT KIND OF A SITUATION BEFORE EVERYBODY COMES TOGETHER TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

>> AND THEY WILL.

TO DO NOTHING WOULD BE.

>> THEY KNOW THE ALTERNATIVE.

>> YOU'D BE OUT OF OFFICE.

TOPIC TWO.

AN OLD CYNICAL SAYING FROM LAWMAKERS IN THE MINORITY IS A VOTE NO AND TAKE THE DOUGH.

IT'S A LITTLE HARSH.

MEMBERS OF THE MINORITY PARTY DO HAVE SOME INFLUENCE.

BUT DEMOCRATS AT THE STATEHOUSE STRUGGLE TO HAS MUCH OF A SAY ON THE BIG ISSUES.

NOW HOUSE SPEAKER MATT HUFFMAN ONCE SAID THE SUPER MAJORITY CAN KIND OF DO WHAT THEY WANT.

DEMOCRATS CONTINUE TO TRY.

THEY HAVE RESENTED HUNDREDS OF AMENDMENTS AT THE STATE BUDGET PROPOSAL THAT WOULD INCREASE FUNDING FOR SCHOOLS, INCREASE MINIMUM PAY FOR TEACHERS, INCREASE MONEY FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

AND ONE WOULD MIX THE IDEA OF BORROWING $600 MILLION TO HELP THE BROWNS BUILD A NEW STADIUM.

JO INGLES, THEY WERE BUSY.

>> MORE THAN 400 AND MOST OF THEM ARE THINGS THAT WE HAVE ALREADY HEARD FROM THE DEMOCRATIC.

THEIR LIST OF HERE IS WHAT WE WANT AND THE THING IS THAT OHIO VOTERS REJECTED THAT.

THESE ARE NOT FOR THE MOST PART, THESE ARE NOT NEW IDEAS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN PUT BEFORE VOTERS.

THEY HAVE BEEN PUT BEFORE VOTERS AND VOTERS HAVE VOTED REPUBLICAN AND DECIDED THEY DIDN'T WANT THAT.

>> SO WHAT WAS THE POINT?

FOR INSTANCE, IF THEY PUT AN AMENDMENT LAWMAKERS HAVE TO VOTE ON THAT.

SO THE AMENDMENT IS DO NOT PAY FOR THE BROWNS STADIUM.

DOES THAT PUT REPUBLICANS IN A TOUGH SPOT THAT CAN BE USED AGAINST THEM?

>> I THINK THE POINT WITH PUBLIC RELATIONS.

BECAUSE THEY WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHERE THEY STAND.

THAT STADIUM IS NOT A POPULAR, CONTRARY TO WHAT WE MIGHT THINK, IT IS NOT A POPULAR THING AND YOU GO OUT AND TALK TO PEOPLE.

MOST PEOPLE SAY LET THEM PAY FOR THEIR OWN STADIUM.

AND A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS BUDGET WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THOSE ARE.

BUT THE WAY THEY ARE HEADING, A LOT OF THESE LOOK VERY UNPOPULAR.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING TO DRAW A CONTRAST AND SAY HERE IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO.

WE ARE TRYING TO FUND YOUR PUBLIC SCHOOL RATHER THAN TAKE ANYTHING OVER 30% OF THE PREVIOUS YEAR'S BUDGET AND GIVE IT BACK AND CAUSE CONFUSION.

YOU KNOW, THEY ARE SETTING LINES THERE TO SAY THESE ARE THE THINGS WE WANT.

SOCIAL SERVICES, THEY ARE EDUCATION AND THINGS THEY TRADITIONALLY WANT AND THEY WANT PEOPLE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THAT.

>> SO BOB, DO REPUBLICANS LISTEN?

HOW DO THEY REACT TO THIS?

DO THEY SAY SORRY, THANKS FOR YOUR IDEAS.

>> I MEAN, I CAN RELATE, MIKE.

WHEN I FIRST INTO THE STATEHOUSE TO WORK I WORKED FOR THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS AND WE WERE IN THE MINORITY UNDER SPEAKER.

IF THEY THINK THINGS ARE TOUGH NOW, YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN BACK THEN.

AND WE DID VERY SIMILAR KINDS OF THINGS AND JOE IS RIGHT, YOU ARE DOING IT TO GET YOUR RECORD OUT THERE TO TRY TO GET THE VOTERS.

THE MAJORITY TENDS TO TABLE THOSE THINGS WHICH MEANS YOU ARE NOT DOING IT UP OR DOWN VOTE ON IT.

SO IT CAN'T BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A CAMPAIGN.

>> THERE ARE PROCEDURES TO AVOID.

>> OH, YEAH.

VERY MUCH SO.

>> IF I CAN ADD SOMETHING TO THE SOMETHING THAT MY FRIEND JO SAID, THAT IS THAT VOTERS KEEP VOTING FOR REPUBLICANS.

BUT NOT NECESSARILY IN THE SAME RATIO THAT ARE REPRESENTED IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

I WILL CONTINUE TO ALLEGE AND I THINK THAT THE NUMBERS SHOW THAT THE STATE IS NOT AS DIVIDED AS INDICATED IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

BUT I UNDERSTAND AND I WAS PROBABLY, I'M NOT SURE WHAT I WAS DOING, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER PERSONALLY THE DATES OF VERN RIFE.

BUT I'VE HEARD FROM PEOPLE THAT WORKED IN THAT AREA THAT THEY WOULD COME A TIME THAT HE WOULD INVITE THE LEADER OF THE MINORITY INTO HIS OFFICE AND THEY WOULD CLOSE THE DOOR AND WHEN THEY OPENED THE DOOR THERE WAS A LOT OF SMOKE COMING OUT.

BUT EVERYBODY GOT A LITTLE SOMETHING.

AM I RIGHT ON THAT?

>> THEY WERE VERY GOOD FRIENDS.

AND IF YOU WERE IN THE REPUBLICAN SIDE OF THAT, YOU WOULD HEAR COMPLAINTS FROM OUR MEMBERS ABOUT MAYBE HE WAS WORKING A LITTLE TOO CLOSELY WITH VERN RIFE AND THAT'S THE PROBLEMS YOU GET INTO.

IT'S A TOUGH JOB.

YOU CAN ONLY WORK SO MUCH WITH THE MINORITY--MAJORITY BEFORE YOUR MEMBERS START TURNING AGAINST YOU.

>> AND NOWADAYS, POLARIZATION IS ON STEROIDS.

>> NOTHING LIKE IT WAS BACK THEN.

>> MIKE, YOUR OLD FRIEND CHIP O'NEILL FROM MASSACHUSETTS, I UNDERSTAND HE USED TO GO VISIT RONALD REAGAN AND POP OPEN A BOTTLE OF JAMISON AND BY THE END OF THE EVENING EVERYBODY GOT A LITTLE SOMETHING.

>> JAMISON DOES WONDERS.

COULD SOLVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS.

ANYWAY.

THE BREAKING NEWS IN THE 2026 RACE FOR GOVERNOR IS JIM TRESSEL IS STILL THINKING ABOUT RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND FORMER OSU FOOTBALL COACH IS STILL CONSIDERING ENTERING THE REPUBLICAN RACE FOR GOVERNOR AFTER ATTORNEY GENERAL DAVE YOST DROPPED OUT.

TRESSEL WOULD BE VIVEK RAMASWAMY'S STRONGEST OPPONENT ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

JO INGLES, WHERE IS JIM TRESSEL?

HE ALWAYS PLAYS HIS CARDS CLOSE TO HIS VEST.

BUT HE IS NEW TO THIS JOB.

HE'S NOT GOING TO JUMP IN YET.

WHERE IS HE ON THIS?

>> HE SAYS HE IS STUDYING AND LOOKING AT THE POSSIBILITIES.

HE IS LEARNING FROM GOVERNOR DeWINE .

HE IS INTERESTED BUT HE WILL NOT SAY WHERE HE STANDS ON THIS.

WE TRIED TO PIN HIM DOWN AND ASKED THE QUESTION OVER AND OVER DIFFERENT WAYS.

I ASKED HIM WHEN THE COURSE AND.

WHEN YOU TAKE THE TEST?

AND HE SAID AT SOME POINT THERE WILL BE A TIME.

BUT HE WASN'T SPECIFYING.

HE DOES SAY TALK TO THE GOVERNOR AND THEN I THINK THE THING IS THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SITUATION, GOVERNOR DeWINE WHO IS IN LINE TO TAKE HIS PLACE AT THIS POINT, IT LOOKS LIKE VIVEK RAMASWAMY.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY IS SAYING HE WANTS TO TAX CUTS, HE WANTS GETTING RID OF FAT IN THE GOVERNMENT AS OHIO DOGE.

IF YOU TALK ABOUT GETTING READY TO FATTEN THE GOVERNMENT FOR THE BULK OF THE LAST 30 YEARS REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN IN CHARGE OF THE GOVERNMENT.

>> AS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY MOVED PAST THE ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS, MIKE DeWINE IS ONE AND JIM TRESSEL IS NEW TO THE JOB BUT HE IS IN THAT SAME GENERATION.

>> I MEAN, IF YOU ARE A REPUBLICAN RUNNING IN A PRIMARY IN OHIO YOU ARE IN GOOD SHAPE IF YOU'VE GOT THE PRESIDENT ENDORSEMENT.

PRESIDENT TRUMP.

AND THAT'S WHAT HE'S GOT.

I'M NOT SURE IF JIM TRESSEL WANTS TO RUN MORE THAN MIKE DeWINE ONCE JIM TRESSEL TO RUN.

SO I DON'T KNOW.

BUT HE CAN'T WAIT.

AND I MEAN, JIM TRESSEL , ONE THING HE'S GOT GOING FOR HIM HE'S GOT WHAT, 99% NAME I. D. HE'S GOT TIME.

HE CAN WAIT UNTIL DECEMBER 31st OF THIS YEAR AND TO SAY, I'M GOING TO RUN.

BUT THAT'S NOT ALL THAT COMMON.

MOST PEOPLE HAVE TO DO IT IN ADVANCE.

>> HE'S DOING A LOT OF PUBLIC APPEARANCES.

>> ALSO A LOT OF PUBLIC APPEARANCES AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

>> AND HE IS ON X ALL THE TIME.

>> TWO THINGS CAN HAPPEN.

NUMBER ONE IS THAT THE FOLKS THAT HAVE BACKED THE WIND DeWINE FINANCIALLY GET TOGETHER AND APPROACH HIM.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE A PHENOMENAL ADVANTAGE BECAUSE IT IS ABOUT MONEY.

THE SECOND IS DEMOCRATS.

WE DO HAVE OPEN PRIMARIES.

FOR A VERY LEGITIMATE REASON AND I AGREE WITH HIM.

I THINK I AM IN THE MINORITY AMONG DEMOCRATS THAT MIGHT COME UP AND SAY LOOK, WE MAY NOT STAND A CHANCE AGAINST VIVEK RAMASWAMY BUT WE MIGHT STAND A CHANCE TO PUT TRESSEL IN THE DRIVER SEAT.

AND HE IS CERTAINLY LESS OFFENSIVE TO US.

>> IT'S AN OPEN PRIMARY UNLESS HE DECIDES TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT IS WHERE HIS HEART IS BUT THERE MIGHT BE.

>> OR TIM RYAN.

I DON'T KNOW IF AMY DROPS OUT IF TIM RYAN GETS IN, SHE PROBABLY WOULD.

>> SO, YOU COULD HAVE A PRIMARY ON YOUR HANDS.

>> WITH ALL THESE CANDIDATES, ASIDE FROM TIM RYAN, THEY ARE ALL PRETTY MUCH ROOKIE POLITICIANS.

TRESSEL HAS NEVER RUN BEFORE AND AMY THAT IS HER FIRST RUN.

IT'S A BIG CHANCE FOR THEM TO PUT THEIR FAITH .

>> THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE WANT.

I MEAN, DONALD TRUMP HAD RUN FOR OFFICE BEFORE HE BECAME PRESIDENT.

PEOPLE SEEM TO WANT THE LESS EXPERIENCED PERSON.

I'M NOT SURE THAT EXPERIENCE PLAYS INTO IT.

BERNIE MORENO.

COLD ON THE LIST OF WHO HAS BEEN LISTED.

EXPERIENCE HAS NOT BEEN A QUALITY THAT VOTERS WANT.

>> WHICH GETS TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT ESTABLISHMENT.

I MEAN, I THINK IN EITHER PARTY AND ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE ISN'T ALL THAT, IS NOT WHAT VOTERS SEEM TO WANT ON EITHER SIDE.

THEY WANT SOMEBODY FROM THE OUTSIDE THAT EITHER CAN SHAKE THE ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE OR BRING NEW IDEAS ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

>> AMY WOULD BE A FRESH FACE, BUT THAT'S REALLY.

>> AND MUCH BETTER THAN I ANTICIPATED ON THE TRAIL FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME THAT SITUATION WITH THE MONEY AND EXPECTATIONS AND YOU GO ALL IN.

SO.

>> LET'S GET TO OUR LAST TOPIC.

GOVERNOR DeWINE HAS A SPECIAL FONDNESS FOR HAITI AND THE HAITIAN PEOPLE.

HE AND HIS WIFE FUNDED A SCHOOL THERE IN HONOR OF THEIR LATE DAUGHTER.

AND HAVE MADE FREQUENT VISITS.

HE STRONGLY DEFENDED HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS IN SPRINGFIELD AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP AND VICE PRESIDENT JD VANCE SPREAD FALSE RUMORS ABOUT THEM.

NOW THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS REFUSING TO EXTEND THE STATUS THAT WOULD ALLOW HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS TO STAY IN THE COUNTRY LEGALLY.

DeWINE SAID THIS WEEK HE AND LOCAL BUSINESSES ARE WORRIED THE AREA AROUND SPRINGFIELD WILL LOSE THOUSANDS OF WORKERS IF THE HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS AS LEGAL STATUS ENDS.

JOE MAS, THIS PUTS GOVERNOR DeWINE IN A TOUGH SPOT BECAUSE HE FOUGHT HARD AGAINST THE CHARACTERIZATION IN THE SUMMERTIME.

>> HE WAS FIGHTING BACK AGAINST THE OUTRAGEOUS ALLEGATIONS THAT THEY WERE EATING YOUR CATS AND DOGS.

WHICH WAS RELATIVELY EASY TO DO.

I GIVE HIM ALL THE CREDIT IN THE WORLD.

I THINK HE LEGITIMATELY.

LET ME GO BACK AS TO HOW IS IT THAT THE HAITIANS GOT THERE.

ONE OF THEM IS THROUGH THE PAROLE PROGRAM WHERE YOU ACTUALLY APPLY OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES AND THEN YOU ARE GIVEN A PERIOD OF TIME TO APPEAR IN FRONT OF AN IMMIGRATION JUDGE AND TRY TO PLEAD YOUR CASE FOR ASYLUM.

AND THE OTHER ONE IS THE TEMPORARY PROTECTION STATUS THAT IS VERY SIMILAR.

TEMPORARY PROTECTION STATUS IS USUALLY FOR A PERIOD OF TIME HOPING THAT HAITI WOULD REBUILD.

OR IN VENEZUELA, THAT THE GOVERNMENT WOULD CHANGE IN VENEZUELA.

THAT KIND OF A THING.

AND I THINK IT'S THE ULTIMATE IN CRUELTY WITHOUT ANYTHING NECESSARILY HAPPENING AT A TIME WHEN THIS COMMUNITY IS CONTRIBUTING, LIKE EVERYBODY HAS ACKNOWLEDGED, TO THE CITY OF SPRINGFIELD AND SURROUND.

TO SAY WE WANT YOU OUT.

NOT FOR ANY PARTICULAR REASON.

BUT JUST WE WANT YOU OUT.

>> BOB, WHAT YOU MAKE OF GOVERNOR DeWINE, HE SEEMS TO STRESS THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF HAVING THESE IMMIGRANTS, NOT THE PERSONAL STORIES OF HAITI.

>> I THINK THAT WAS SMART.

I THINK HE UNDERSTANDS A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD RESPOND BETTER TO THE ECONOMIC SIDE OF THIS.

>> THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES MIGHT.

BUT WHAT I FOUND INTERESTING IN ALL OF THIS AND LIKE JOE SAID, THIS WAS A BIG ISSUE DURING THE CAMPAIGN.

DONALD TRUMP ENDED UP CARRYING THE CITY OF SPRINGFIELD FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER.

HE DIDN'T CARRY IT IN '20, HE DIDN'T CARRY IT IN '20 BUT HE CARRIED IT IN '24.

THE PEOPLE OF SPRINGFIELD KIND OF SPOKE IT.

>> JO, HOW HARD IS THE GOVERNOR GOING TO FIGHT FOR THIS?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR HAS ALWAYS SAID THAT THESE IMMIGRANTS ARE HELPING THE BOTTOM LINE AND HE STRESSES THAT BUT AS FAR AS GOING UP AGAINST PRESIDENT TRUMP AND ACTUALLY HAVING A BATTLE I THINK HE HOPES THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY WILL BE THE ONE TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE TO DO THAT.

>> THERE'S REALLY NOTHING THAT HE CAN DO.

ALL THE CREDIT THAT I WANT TO GIVE HIM, THERE IS NOTHING THAT DeWINE CAN DO.

>> THIS IS PART OF A LARGER ANTI-IMMIGRANT GOING ON.

WITH HARVARD UNIVERSITY AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TRYING TO BAND THE UNIVERSITY FROM ACCEPTING FOREIGN STUDENTS.

SO WHAT LONG-TERM IMPACT COULD THIS HAVE?

CULTURALLY, ECONOMICALLY, AS FAR AS INNOVATION GOES?

>> WELL, I WROTE AN OP-ED IN THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH SOME WEEKS BACK SUGGESTING THAT WHAT THIS REALLY IS IS ABOUT ETHNIC CLEANSING.

THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THE WHITE FARMERS, "FARMERS" FROM SOUTH AFRICA COMING IN AND HE HAS TO SEEMS TO HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEM WITH OTHER FOLKS FROM THE MIDDLE EAST AND THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE.

SO THE IMAGINED IMPACT, THE FANTASY IS THAT SOMEHOW WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A WHITENING OF AMERICA.

>> DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT AND IS THERE A DANGER OF BEING SO MUCH, PERCEIVED AS BEING ANTI- IMMIGRANT AND ANTIFOREIGN PARTICIPATION?

>> I DON'T LIKE WHAT'S GOING ON NOW BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS.

IF IT WASN'T FOR WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS WITH JOE BIDEN AND HAVING A COMPLETELY OPEN BORDER, WE WOULDN'T--YES IT WAS!

HOW MANY PEOPLE CAME IN?

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> 10 MILLION.

>> GIVE ME A NUMBER THEN.

>> IT WAS MORE OPEN THAN IT IS NOW.

>> BUT PUBLIC OPINION THE WAY IT IS TODAY.

YOU CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT PUBLIC OPINION ALL YOU WANT.

BUT WE DIDN'T GET THERE OUT OF NOWHERE.

WE GOT THERE BECAUSE OF THE POLICIES OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

>> WE GOT THERE BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT IT WAS PRESENTED BY FOX NEWS AND THE LIKE.

>> COME ON.

>> WE WILL SOLVE THIS IMMIGRATION PROBLEM NEXT WEEK.

TIME FOR OUR FINAL ON THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

>> IF THIS ADMINISTRATION WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE LEGALITY THEN THEY WOULDN'T BE MAKING PEOPLE THAT CAME IN LEGALLY ILLEGAL.

IN CREATING THIS KIND OF UNCERTAINTY.

THIS IS ABOUT ETHNIC CLEANSING.

WE SEE THE UNITED NATIONS HAS SAID IT IS A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.

>> BOB?

>> A BILL WAS INTRODUCED IN THE OHIO HOUSE TO MAKE SUPERMAN THE STATE OFFICIAL SUPERHERO.

AND THAT IS BECAUSE THE CREATORS WERE BOTH FOR CLEVELAND AND IT CAN'T TAKE EFFECT UNTIL 2033 BECAUSE THAT IS WHEN SUPERMAN GOES INTO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.

>> JO?

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE BROWNS STADIUM.

I'M INTERESTED TO SEE WHETHER THE GOVERNOR ACTUALLY VETOES IT.

IF IT GOES IN FOR THAT $600 MILLION IN BOND, HE IS NOT A BIG FAN OF THAT.

SO WE WILL SEE WHERE THAT GOES.

>> I'M GOING TO BUILD ON THE SUPERMAN THEME.

I THINK WE ARE IN FOR ANOTHER LICENSE PLATE CONTROVERSY.

SUPERMAN CREATORS ARE FROM OHIO BUT SUPERMAN AS WE ALL KNOW LANDED IN KANSAS.

SO YOU COULD ARGUE THAT KANSAS IS THE BIRTHPLACE OF SUPERMAN AND NOT OHIO.

SO IF I WERE KANSAS I WOULD GET ON THAT RIGHT AWAY.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK AND ALSO WATCH US ON DEMAND AT OUR WEBSITE WOSU.

ORG/COTR .

WE ARE ALSO ON YOUTUBE AND THE PBS APP.

FOR OUR CREW AND PANEL AND SUPERMAN, I AM MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.